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Discussion Starter · #161 ·
So I am kinda at a crossroad….i have an opportunity to buy a cancelled HEV that is coming to the dealer in a couple months…. and i plan to discuss numbers with the sales guy to see how things line up…but at the end of the day, thisi is still not the same car we ordered. A couple differences between the two, Colour (not a big issue - though I am getting tired of black cars), less Horsepower than the PHEV (226 vs 260 for the PHEV) and leatherette seats instead of leather (not a game changer - might wear better)… but the thing is there is less than an $1000 difference between what ‘i want' and what ‘i might be able to get now'.

SO yeah.. I will talk numbers and see what happens… but with all the rumours flying around… If given the above scenario, what would you guys do?
Don’t sweat the horsepower. Remember that you were considering the 3 cylinder Rogue which is not a horsepower beast either. If my queue number at the dealership was greater than 5 I’d be seriously considering other options. If the rumour is true about January production then cars will trickle in over the span of months. I am number 4 so I set my expectations at June. I also have a Sportage HEV on order. Price is about the same as the PHEV after rebates. The HEV has a couple hundred in sneaky dealer fees that they are denying but if it comes in around May I will take it if there is no news about Santa Fe.

i can’t tell you what to do…only what I am doing.
 

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Don’t sweat the horsepower. Remember that you were considering the 3 cylinder Rogue which is not a horsepower beast either. If my queue number at the dealership was greater than 5 I’d be seriously considering other options. If the rumour is true about January production then cars will trickle in over the span of months. I am number 4 so I set my expectations at June. I also have a Sportage HEV on order. Price is about the same as the PHEV after rebates. The HEV has a couple hundred in sneaky dealer fees that they are denying but if it comes in around May I will take it if there is no news about Santa Fe.

i can’t tell you what to do…only what I am doing.
Yeah I totally get it… This was simply an opportunity that literally landed in my lap last night. Even though it is NOT the car I ordered, it tikes 99% of the wants…minus the plug and colour of course. I ran this by my wife and as stated we will talk to the dealer about it and see how the numbers line up, but as my wife put it, if the numbers are not in our favour than we might as well wait it out, If Hyundai pulls a PR stunt and drops the PHEV from 2023, they would certainly lose us as a customer and we probably will move to Nissan.

When we talk to the dealer I won’t be going in with the intent of buying but more for something informative… and hope we can see what makes sense at that time. Either car is more than we have ever had and I know we would be more than happy with one or the other...so we shall see,
 

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Discussion Starter · #163 · (Edited)
Assuming you only get the $5,000 rebate on the PHEV (you aren’t in BC or QC) then on paper the cars are $100 apart. Doc fee on both is the same but some dealerships are adding their own dealer prep fee which you should call them on because web prices include PDI. Dealerships are also adding wheel locks for $100 to $200 to squeeze more money out of the deal. Wheel locks are, pretty well, mandatory profits on deal sheets now.

Using Ontario with a $599 Doc fee I got $54,700 for the hybrid and $54,800 for the PHEV. That is tax, pdi in. That’s using the Hyundai website.

Oh. If they try to throw intangibles onto the vehicle like insurances, protection etc then ask to see the contracts for those as every one has a decline box. Dealerships like to say that the vehicle are like that but they don’t from the factory. Those are port installed options. Asking to see contracts pushes back against intimidation profits.

ultimately the end decision is yours and if the numbers are right then I know you will be happy with either.
 

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Assuming you only get the $5,000 rebate on the PHEV (you aren’t in BC or QC) then on paper the cars are $100 apart. Doc fee on both is the same but some dealerships are adding their own dealer prep fee which you should call them on because web prices include PDI. Dealerships are also adding wheel locks for $100 to $200 to squeeze more money out of the deal. Wheel locks are, pretty well, mandatory profits on deal sheets now.

Using Ontario with a $599 Doc fee I got $54,700 for the hybrid and $54,800 for the PHEV. That is tax, pdi in. That’s using the Hyundai website.

Oh. If they try to throw intangibles onto the vehicle like insurances, protection etc then ask to see the contracts for those as every one has a decline box. Dealerships like to say that the vehicle are like that but they don’t from the factory. Those are port installed options. Asking to see contracts pushes back against intimidation profits.

ultimately the end decision is yours and if the numbers are right then I know you will be happy with either.
Yeah after discussing all this with my wife she is not as engaged to the HEV and feels we'd miss out on more of what the PHEV special. It is hard to disagree to that. However so eon on the PHEV group on facebook was suggesting that due to canada being a small player, the allotment size may not be that large….if they only produce 1000 cars for canada and with 192 or so dealers across canada to feed you really would need to be in the top 5 to even have a chance at a car. And this is where i seriously have an issue with Hyundai. They allowed this to happen and it is starting to sound like they may not follow through on the orders…but in the end my car is running fine and i have time on my side, so if it is not meant to be…there will be other options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #165 ·
Unicorns exist but just not in Canada yet. On another forum a US member posted “I just bought a 2023 Santa Fe Plug in last night”.

So the vehicle is indeed in production and available in the US but here in Canada it’s still vapour.
 

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Unicorns exist but just not in Canada yet. On another forum a US member posted “I just bought a 2023 Santa Fe Plug in last night”.

So the vehicle is indeed in production and available in the US but here in Canada it’s still vapour.

SO I get that Canada is a smaller market than the US, but I still don’t totally understand considering the PHEV is only available in 11 states…

So I will be talking to my sales guy tomorrow - still curious on what the numbers would be for the Hybrid coming in… but I also hope to get more info on where things stand with the PHEV - maybe even talk to the sales manager to get my queue number. I don’t want to seem desperate especially on getting the HEV, but I also don’t want to waste my time waiting for something that may not ever come to light either.

I did discuss with the wife and shared the numbers and differences between the PHEV and the HEV, but all things aside rebate and all, she really is not interested in losing the value we’d get from the PHEV and feels that the cost difference is really not enough to justify jumping to the HEV… especially when it is not the car we initially signed up for. However, she is open to talking numbers and see if anything makes sense… though I feel this will not be the case. It is a sellers market… and I feel there will be little movement given how exclusive these cars seem to be.

Wish me luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #167 ·
SO I get that Canada is a smaller market than the US, but I still don’t totally understand considering the PHEV is only available in 11 states…

So I will be talking to my sales guy tomorrow - still curious on what the numbers would be for the Hybrid coming in… but I also hope to get more info on where things stand with the PHEV - maybe even talk to the sales manager to get my queue number. I don’t want to seem desperate especially on getting the HEV, but I also don’t want to waste my time waiting for something that may not ever come to light either.

I did discuss with the wife and shared the numbers and differences between the PHEV and the HEV, but all things aside rebate and all, she really is not interested in losing the value we’d get from the PHEV and feels that the cost difference is really not enough to justify jumping to the HEV… especially when it is not the car we initially signed up for. However, she is open to talking numbers and see if anything makes sense… though I feel this will not be the case. It is a sellers market… and I feel there will be little movement given how exclusive these cars seem to be.

Wish me luck.
You are a customer who is paying $50 k for a vehicle. For that price I think it’s your right to know your queue number. No desperation involved. You ask for out the door costs on both vehicles to make an informed decision. You don’t want them to give you the price difference because they can hide markups on both that way. Remember you aren’t there to serve them and you have the power to walk away. An important note is that you might not get the color of Phev you signed up for since it will be allocation that is coming in. The alleged rumour is the regional director of Hyundai Canada says phev is in production now for first deliveries in March. If your queue number is greater than 5 I would be considering other options. If it greater than 10 or 15 I think you have a a conclusion you already know. Beyond that I don’t think they are going to tell you much. Queue number and final out the door price is what you can get as facts.

good luck and remember to smile while you are thinking car salespeople can be such devious people at times.
 

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You are a customer who is paying $50 k for a vehicle. For that price I think it’s your right to know your queue number. No desperation involved. You ask for out the door costs on both vehicles to make an informed decision. You don’t want them to give you the price difference because they can hide markups on both that way. Remember you aren’t there to serve them and you have the power to walk away. An important note is that you might not get the color of Phev you signed up for since it will be allocation that is coming in. The alleged rumour is the regional director of Hyundai Canada says phev is in production now for first deliveries in March. If your queue number is greater than 5 I would be considering other options. If it greater than 10 or 15 I think you have a a conclusion you already know. Beyond that I don’t think they are going to tell you much. Queue number and final out the door price is what you can get as facts.

good luck and remember to smile while you are thinking car salespeople can be such devious people at times.
so we went yesterday and decided on the Hev that was on offer. We discovered we were number 16 in the order queue…but the dealer still had npt submitted the orders at this point. So obviously it was not meant to be for us. And though it was difficult to justify the price similarities, the HEV exists today and our PHEV does not. We also got a great trade value for our current car which made the choice that much easier. If we had decided to hold out for the PHEV, our trade would not be worth the same as it is today.

the icing on the cake is that the made a mistake on the delivery date. It was supposed to be march, but actually will be here next month!

Would not have happened had it not been the cancelled order on the HEV from another customer. At this point we would not have even been able to order an HEV as the 2023 order window has since closed,
 

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Discussion Starter · #169 ·
so we went yesterday and decided on the Hev that was on offer. We discovered we were number 16 in the order queue…but the dealer still had npt submitted the orders at this point. So obviously it was not meant to be for us. And though it was difficult to justify the price similarities, the HEV exists today and our PHEV does not. We also got a great trade value for our current car which made the choice that much easier. If we had decided to hold out for the PHEV, our trade would not be worth the same as it is today.

the icing on the cake is that the made a mistake on the delivery date. It was supposed to be march, but actually will be here next month!

Would not have happened had it not been the cancelled order on the HEV from another customer. At this point we would not have even been able to order an HEV as the 2023 order window has since closed,
Good for you. I bet you are feeling relieved now that it’s almost done. Yes at #16 the chances of a 2023 PHEV are pretty well zero. The 2023 Hyundai order portal for HEV and PHEV never opened so what you are getting is an allocation and lucky at that. Most likely it was supposed to go to a person on the wait list who backed out. Logically it should have gone to the next person on the list but dealerships seem to be exploiting that loophole and saying “well the order was refused so it’s our vehicle to do what we wish with.” It was also probably because you had a trade in that you got it. I am thinking it would have been different if you didn’t have a trade in.

congratulations on the new (almost) Santa Fe HEV.
 

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Good for you. I bet you are feeling relieved now that it’s almost done. Yes at #16 the chances of a 2023 PHEV are pretty well zero. The 2023 Hyundai order portal for HEV and PHEV never opened so what you are getting is an allocation and lucky at that. Most likely it was supposed to go to a person on the wait list who backed out. Logically it should have gone to the next person on the list but dealerships seem to be exploiting that loophole and saying “well the order was refused so it’s our vehicle to do what we wish with.” It was also probably because you had a trade in that you got it. I am thinking it would have been different if you didn’t have a trade in.

congratulations on the new (almost) Santa Fe HEV.
Thsnks! Though i do kinda feel now a tad guilty based on what you just said…
 

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The last email I received from Hyundai was Nov 2022 stating my car will be Jan 2023 production. Since I haven't received an update in two months I contacted the dealer and they said they can see that it still says January production. Not sure what they are looking at but I guess the point is that the dealers don't know anything more than what Hyundai tells us assuming you get an email from Hyundai.
 

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Discussion Starter · #174 ·
There were two RORO carriers @ Annacis Island which is the vehicle carrier port here in Vancouver that is central distribution for Canada. They unloaded the week of January 17, 2023. I was able to find snippets of a manifest of VIN numbers and I spotted Genesis, Palisades and Sonatas in my quick search. Now the RORO carriers can hold 5000 to 7000 vehicles so I wasn’t investigating that many vins plus Canada doesn’t have the same import manifest searching records publicly available as the US. I only got a few in a google search. While both ships came from South Korea neither originated in Ulsan which is bad for those expecting Tuscon, Santa Fe etc. But you never know….the presence of Palisades aboard gives me hope. We will know more in 3 to 4 weeks once dealers begin to receive vehicles on their lots.
 

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That's interesting. Good to know some cars are still being delivered to Canada. I never received a VIN number from Hyundai so I'm not as hopeful.
I live in Toronto and get cable channels from Buffalo NY. There's an ad from Kia dealer claiming they have available brand new Kia Niro EV's on the lot and yet we can't get any new car for immediate delivery in Canada but who knows if it's truly available. I checked their website showing one in stock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #176 ·
The RCC Antwerp stopped at Tacoma WA first for 6 days but only spent 17 hours at Annacis Island so what does that tell you. It says most of the cars got offloaded to the US and just a few pieces were offloaded in Vancouver. :( Most of the South Korean origin carriers are coming from Gwangyang and Gunsan which are not passenger vehicle port - they're Hyundai Heavy Industry ports. But what do I know...I'm not in the shipping business. There have been KIAs on board some ships arriving at Annacis Island but, of course, they stop in Tacoma, WA first which probably takes most of the product and leaves, like two, for Canada.

Bitter aren't I.
 

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Discussion Starter · #177 ·
Well….after 13 months of waiting I bailed….sort of.

I bought an ICE Santa Fe preferred trend incoming unit. 1 of only 2 due into my dealership in feb and March. April shows nothing. I didn’t want to spend $10000 more for the Calligraphy even though the power lift gate, digital dash, 360 camera and folding mirrors would have been nice but $10,000 buys a lot of gas and I don’t do the daily commute anymore.

but I kept my deposit on the PHEV and if it rolls in then I can always trade the ICE in. BTW dealership I deal with has no clue about PHEV for Santa Fe and said to set expectations for Q3 but unconfirmed. (Nobody knows in Canada).

fyi. Got at msrp plus $599 doc and $699 “care package”. The package had the mandatory wheel locks and supplementary mud flaps and floor mats. I wanted the mud flaps anyway but had them remove the floor mats and throw in a free oil change at 2000km to get rid of the initial break in crud.

it will be interesting when and if the PHEV shows up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #179 ·
…but am watching. I will continue to wait.
Here is more of what I know. You need to extrapolate from the KIA side of things since KIA and Hyundai are cousins and many vehicles share the same platform and thus parts.

A salesperson at, allegedly, western Canada’s largest volume KIA dealership said they are guessing more HEV Sportage vehicles will be more available Q3 of 2023. PHEV (all models) are still invisible unicorns. So I can believe that.

That dealership has received just 4 Sportage HEV in 5 months (August 2022 to December 2022). The salesperson said they were for orders placed in 2022. So I said if I am #68 in the queue for a Sportage HEV SX then all of those 67 are placed prior to August 2022 …because I’m #68 and that’s when I placed my order. On top of that there are at least 5 flavours of Sportage HEV so ya gotta have 200 or 300 in the queue….and you are just one dealer.

“ummm….ummmm….well you could move up…someone could cancel or not like what rolls in”

And then the salesperson says “things are going to get better. KIA says, like, 40,000 units are destined for western Canada”

Dude. KIA only sold just over 68,000 units in all of Canada in 2022.

So what does this tell us besides the obvious? Extrapolate because KIA and Hyundai are cousins then production should be similar. One model may receive more emphasis for a production run then another. That Q3 KIA estimate tells me to expect similar for Hyundai. The 2024 Santa Fe will be announced May to July. Traditionally new model years would be hitting lots for demos in August and product for sale late fall early winter. So more Santa Fe HEV Q2 or Q3….and maybe, just maybe, a trickle of PHEV thereafter.

we are in goofy-ville so the 2023 orders may be rolling into Canada by August to December. Everything is pushed due to backlogs and shortages as we all know.

The second thing it tells us is to always corroborate any salesperson’s story. A simple google can tell you so much more about who’s telling the truth.
 

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Well….after 13 months of waiting I bailed….sort of.

I bought an ICE Santa Fe preferred trend incoming unit. 1 of only 2 due into my dealership in feb and March. April shows nothing. I didn’t want to spend $10000 more for the Calligraphy even though the power lift gate, digital dash, 360 camera and folding mirrors would have been nice but $10,000 buys a lot of gas and I don’t do the daily commute anymore.

but I kept my deposit on the PHEV and if it rolls in then I can always trade the ICE in. BTW dealership I deal with has no clue about PHEV for Santa Fe and said to set expectations for Q3 but unconfirmed. (Nobody knows in Canada).

fyi. Got at msrp plus $599 doc and $699 “care package”. The package had the mandatory wheel locks and supplementary mud flaps and floor mats. I wanted the mud flaps anyway but had them remove the floor mats and throw in a free oil change at 2000km to get rid of the initial break in crud.

it will be interesting when and if the PHEV shows up.
Congratulations Mediaman, I don't blame you for getting what you can in this market.

Over the past year, I think we only had one confirmed delivery of 2022 Santa Fe PHEV and no 2023. So yes, let's keep posting to see if anyone else actually get any PHEV's.
 
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